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Rossendale Birds Forum -> Birderbryan's VisMig Stuff -> British & Icelantic Chaffinch & Pipit dispersal.
Post Info TOPIC: British & Icelantic Chaffinch & Pipit dispersal.
Birderbryan


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British & Icelantic Chaffinch & Pipit dispersal.
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Here are some mails which have come in within the past hour in response to todays notes on Hutton Roof.  Maybe some of you may wish to see this stuff, I do know Craig will probably be interested especially!  The Mails obviously start from the bottom with Clive McKay (vismig cordinator UK), then my reply and finally a contribution from Seumus on the Fylde.  Hope you enjoy..... very interesting stuff!!
 
Bryan.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [vismig] Visible Bird Migration - Thr Sept 29th 2011 - Hutton Roof, Cumbria.



Hello Bryan,
 
Some interesting comments re Chaffinch and Meadow Pipit. I ring and record vis mig at Rossall near Fleetwood and other members of Fylde Ringing Group do the same out on Rawcliffe Moss some 12-15 km to the east. For some weeks now Phil on Rawcliffe Moss has been recording good numbers of Chaffinch heading south, whilst over on the coast at Rossall the numbers have just recently started to pick up. At Rossall we don't really get any numbers of Chaffinch until continental type birds begin to arrive from the east, hence our peak numbers tend to be in October.
 
On 15th September we ringed 43 Meadow Pipits at Rossall and Phil ringed 52 at Rawcliffe Moss. Out of our 43 birds we had 5 with wing lengths greater than 85 mm (4 @ 87 & 1 @ 86) and Phil didn't have any. Although the sample size is small, and in fact several of the Mipits we ringed didn't get winged, it suggests that Icelandic birds were perhaps involved in the movement we had at Rossall and not inland at Rawcliffe Moss. It's all interesting stuff and I'm glad we don't have all the answers!
 
Cheers,
 
Seumus
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [vismig] Visible Bird Migration - Thr Sept 29th 2011 - Hutton Roof, Cumbria.
 
Hello Clive,
Yes I am of the same belief that these could well be UK birds dispersing.  Here at Hutton Roof, in the main would go past me West although up to 20% will go East, but very very rare do they go South (other than odd ones going SE).  I dont worry to much about this because I am convinced that this is still probably a Southern movement.  Why I say this is that as you know I also watch occasionally down at Shore Road/Hunting Hill and at that site all the Chaffinches are going South. And this site lies perhaps some 5/6 mile SW to Hutton.
 
So I would have presumed that further along the routing the Chaffinches veer to South.  What is probably even more strange is that the Greenfinch have now started and they are mainly heading out East.
 
In a week or two I should start seeing or at least hearing the odd Brambling going W, and I often wonder if at about that time whether or not we will then be getting Continental Chaffinches mixing in with the British populations!
 
I was having a conversation with Dave the other day about Mipit dispersals and the different periods of push/peak times compared to the East Side, although this is not always the case, but certainly as been in more recent years.  We are probably of the opinion that the ones on this side (the West) are our UK Birds dispersing and heading perhaps to the Dee Washes and beyond.  Whilst the stuff going down the East Side could well be Icelantic birds.  This year the West side peaked approx 10 days after the East side peaked.
 
Also a friend of mine Craig Bell (ringer) was over at Spurn during this peak period helping with the ringing, and he said the majority of the Mipits they caught where of Icelantic origin, being of a great length of feather measure than the British birds. So again if this is the case it does look a possible that we are talking in two different migrations.
 
It has for me been a little dissapointing with the Mipits, having always had fantastic movements over the Pennines down in Haslingden, but here at Hutton Roof it really makes up for it with the high concentrations of Chaffinch movements, and another bonus with the fantastic Thrush moves.
 
Bryan.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: [vismig] Visible Bird Migration - Thr Sept 29th 2011 - Hutton Roof, Cumbria.

Hi Brian

Its very interesting that you and Jean on the west get lots of Chaffinches, whilst most sites on the east get very few unti lthe continental influx starts in October. I wonder if these early birds are dispersing/migrating British birds heading westwards?

Clive

 



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C Bel


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Hi Bryan,

Interesting. Im definiately going to make a point of measuring all Mipits next season to get a better picture as to which birds are coming through, and, this will also probably change over the whole passage period with different races coming at different times of the autumn. Will also check with any more from this year.

Craig. 



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Birderbryan


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Hi Craig,

Below is some more stuff, continued on from yesterdays which you may care to read along with anyone else whos interested. Read from bottom mail upwards...

By the way I contacted Phil (Slade) - ringer at Rawcliffe Moss yesterday, and he has lots of theories and some good ringing results which maybe of interest, he will be letting me have these after this weekend, so when I get them I will post them on here.

Yes now that will be very interesting to see if you are getting the Icelantics in Rossendale and in what ratio to British!

Craig: Its just come on the Lancaster site that someone else has had a Cuckoo up here this morning. So your not the only one!!

*****************************************************************

FOLLOW ON MAILS FROM YESTERDAY, START AT BOTTOM AND WORK UP.
Hello Bryan,
 
Yes I did have a large count at Rossall a couple of years ago and I am very much of the opinion that they were due to the swell of continental birds. Phil has been catching good numbers of Chaffinch at Rawcliffe Moss for a good few weeks now and I must ask him if he has had any with large wing lengths. Any Chaffinch with a wing length over 91 mm are thought likely to be continental birds.
 
I must get back in to the habitat of posting my vis records on Trek, I haven't done a for a couple of years now, even though I watch at Rossall regularly in the Spring and Autumn.
 
Cheers,
 
Seumus
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [vismig] Visible Bird Migration - Thr Sept 29th 2011 - Hutton Roof, Cumbria.
 
Hi Seumus,
It was great to read your mail and I suppose, that after reading your results from 15th September, it now scuffs the idea that Icelantics have still to make an appearance, when obviously they must already be with us to a lesser degree. Really interesting also to see that Phil never got any at Rawcliffe on that same day.
 
Our Chaffinch numbers dont usually increase much more than they are now, and on checking back over the past two years they have recorded a daily count of somewhere between 80-220 birds from now on and during the month of October, based on a usual 4 hourly count in a morning (sometimes only 2 hours). Most of the records show between about 125 to 200 on average, but I cant really say that I have noticed any substantial "swelling" of quantity to suggest a quick influx of additional continental birds.  I am now thinking that perhaps they are already with us but to a lesser degree, and for us its possible our numbers may swell slightly, but hardly noticeable....
 
If I am not mistaken, I think I remember a report from a couple of years ago coming from the Rossall area of the Fylde, and I am sure it was offered by goodself or Stephen or both of you,  and it numbered well over a thousand Chaffinches on one particular morning, all heading South. This was a fantastic number of birds for this side and would I be right in thinking that these had come about through the swell of continental birds.
 
It gets more and more interesting.
 
Regards,
Bryan.

 



-- Edited by Birderbryan on Friday 30th of September 2011 03:16:36 PM

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